Hayagriva: ...and on
Sigmund Freud, you discussed with Syamasundara Prabhu the sexual
aspects, but not the theological aspects. Freud wrote two basic books on
religion, Future of an Illusion, and there was a great deal in Leonardo
da Vinci, A Study in Psycho-sexuality. He writes, "Psychoanalysis, which
has taught us the intimate connection between the father complex and
belief in God, has shown us that the personal God is psychologically
nothing but an exalted father. Youthful persons lose their religious
belief as soon as the authority of the father breaks down." So he sees
God as basically a father complex arising out of the need of help of the
Prabhupada: That little child, how he can give up the idea of father?
And how Mr. Freud can give up the idea? Was he not born by a father?
Hayagriva: He feels that...
Prabhupada: He dropped from the sky? Huh? Did, did he?
Hayagriva: He feels that this is childish.
Prabhupada: That childish, what is that childish? He had no father?
Hayagriva: He had a father, but he believed in ultimate emancipation.
Prabhupada: No, no, ultimate we shall go later on. First of all, he has
to think whether he had his father or not. Or his father's father was
not there, and go on searching out. So without father, how can one exist
or one can come into being? So that if he cannot understand this simple
philosophy, what kind of philosopher he is? He had his father. His
father had his father. So this is fact. Even though he might not have
seen his dead grandfather, but he was there. That is a fact. So if you
go on searching, father's father's father, where you will come there is
no father? Which..., which is that point when you can say, "Now here
there is no father"? And if you actually come to that point that "Here
is a person of whom there is no father," that is God.
Hayagriva: He says, "After all, is not the destiny of childishness to be
overcome? Man cannot remain a child forever."
Prabhupada: No. What is his definition of childish? Whether he is
childish, or he is condemning others?
Hayagriva: One who needs...
Prabhupada: Unless you can deny that you have born, you are born without
father, then you are a child. You do not have conception how you are in
existence without father. What is this argument? That everything must be
argued, a sane man. So this is simple logic I am putting forward. Who
can refute it, that you have father, your father had father, his father
had father, father's father's, all? This is a disciplic succession of
fathers. How can you deny the father? Therefore the ultimate father, the
supreme father, He is also father but He is supreme father. That is the
difference. So father conception of God is very practical, and it is
explained in the Bhagavad-gita, aham bija-pradah pita. So how he can
defy it if he is a sane man? Who can defy it? Is there any person to
Hayagriva: Well, he says, "Man's helplessness remains, and with it his
father-longing and the gods."
Prabhupada: Hopelessness or no hopelessness...
Prabhupada: Ah. But suppose he is philosophizing. So how he can avoid
the conception of father? That is insanity. This is very simple thing.
Father's father's, his father, his father... When you go to the supreme
father, that is God.
Hayagriva: Well, he felt that the idea of God arose out of man's
helplessness, and the gods...
Prabhupada: That hopelessness is already there, that's a fact. That is
the same logic, that we are finding difficulties in this materialistic
way of life. Threefold miseries--miserable condition of this body, this
mind, miseries offered by other living entities, and the natural
disturbances. So how can you say there is very smooth life? That is not
possible. And above these, there is old age, birth, death. So
hopelessness is already there. But if one is very rascal, he is hoping
against hope and planning that "We shall overcome all these difficulties
by this plan, that plan, that plan." That, that is not possible. The
nature is so strong, whatever plan you imagine, that will smash into
pieces by simply kicking over your face. So you are hopeless but you are
so shameless, inspite of becoming hopeless in every step, you are hoping
against hope to make adjustment with these material things. You are so
rascal and foolish. Hopelessness is always there in every step, and
still, out of insanity, you are trying to adjust with another hopeless
Hayagriva: He felt that the father God is an infantile wish. He says,
"The whole thing is so patently infantile, so incongruous with reality,
that one whose attitudes..."
Prabhupada: So what is his reality? Infantile conception of God, but
what he is, except the child? Huh? He is also planning something. That
is also childish. So how he becomes more than a child? He cannot give us
any definite program by which everyone will be hopeful.
Hayagriva: Well, he felt psychoanalysis was the answer.
Prabhupada: That is jugglery of word. Psychoanalysis, nobody will, can
understand, a common man. Psychoanalysis, if there is meaning, that
there is supreme controller, that is psychoanalysis. We see everywhere
controller, so it is natural. This is psychoanalysis, that there is a
supreme controller. That is natural. Why defying this fact?
Hayagriva: He says, "If one attempts to assign religion its place in
man's evolution, it seems not so much to be a lasting acquisition as a
parallel to the neuroses which the civilized individual must pass
through on his way from childhood to maturity."
Prabhupada: Evidently he is frustrated, without any knowledge of
religion. He had no idea. He has seen that so many sentimental religious
system, and he has concluded like that. But first of all let him
understand what is religion. Religion cannot come into existence without
understanding the idea of God. Religion without God cannot be religion.
According to Vedic system, religion means the order given by God. But if
one has no conception of God, that there is no question of religion. So
Godless religion is, certainly, it is sentiment. That is not religion.
So he has studied something which is not religion; therefore he has got
so many doubts about religion. Real religion is that there is God, that
is a fact, and whatever orders the God gives, that is religion. So he
does not know what is God. How he will know what order He is giving? So
for him everything is not religion.
Hayagriva: It's often been said of Freud that he tried to repress within
himself religious feelings that were definitely there. He says, "I
cannot..." In a letter he wrote, "I cannot rid myself of certain sceptic
materialistic prejudices, and I would carry them over into the research
of the occult." He considered religion the occult.
Prabhupada: Occult, what is that?
Hayagriva: Occult, something obscure. The...
Prabhupada: It is not obscure. It is, everything is obscure to the
foolish person. So he is a foolish person. He does not know what is God.
How he will know what is religion? Our definition of religion is "the
order given by God." But if I do not know what is God, then how can I
take His order? That is the defect.
Hayagriva: In the same letter he writes, "I am entirely incapable of
considering the survival of the personality after death, even as a mere
scientific possibility. I think therefore, it is better if I continue
confining myself to psychoanalysis."
Prabhupada: What is that psy...? He is deficient in psychoanalysis also,
because he is practically seeing in his daily life that a child is
growing to become a boy, a boy is growing to a young man, but the body
is changing and the soul is there. So if he has no sense to understand
this, what kind of psychoanalysis he is? The body of the child is
finished, then he accepts another body, boy. So how you can deny it? You
say it has grown. I say that it is finished. Then what is the
difference? Actually the child's body is not there. So you can show...,
speak in a different language, but the, when the child's body is
finished, there is the boy's body. When the boy's body is finished, the
young man's body. So body is changing, but still my child, my son, John,
I still call him John, although he has changed his body, because I know
my son, the soul John, whom I call John, he is there. So the soul is
there; the body is changing, we are experiencing every day. So what kind
of psychoanalyst he is, that he cannot understand this simple truth? And
still he says, "I cannot believe in the eternity of the soul." That how
poor thoughts he is maintaining, and he is proclaiming himself a
philosopher. What kind of philosopher he is?
Hayagriva: He wrote a book called Beyond the Pleasure Principle, and in
it he wrote, "The goal of all life is death." For him death is the
Prabhupada: But why...
Hayagriva: ...of suffering.
Prabhupada: That's all right. That means you, why you are afraid of
death? Why go to the medical man? Huh? When you are diseased you are
afraid of dying. Why go to the medical man? If death is ultimate
happiness, then why you are trying to avoid death? What is the
Hayagriva: Now this theory... Freud's principal disciple was the famous
psychologist Carl Jung. They had an argument, and Freud once fainted,
and when he came to, his words were, Freud's words were, "How sweet it
must be to die." And in Beyond the Pleasure Principle, he writes, "The
most universal endeavor of all living substance, namely, to return to
the quiescence of the inorganic world. We have all experienced how the
greatest pleasure attainable by us, that of the sexual act, is
associated with the momentary extinction of a highly intensified
excitation. Thus the pleasure principle, the sex act itself, is
preliminary to the most highly desired nirvana, the extinction of
desires, and ultimately the extinction of the life functions themselves.
Thus the pleasure principle seems actually to serve the death
Prabhupada: So where is the pleasure when he is dead? What is that
Hayagriva: Well there is pleasure, and then when pleasure is cultivated,
Prabhupada: That pleasure is in the stone. So why you are...
Hayagriva: That's inorganic. He spoke of the return, the quiescence of
the inorganic world.
Prabhupada: Yes. So...
Hayagriva: To become like...
Prabhupada: Why you are philosophizing? You just sui..., make suicide
and become a stonelike death. That why you are philosophizing, taking so
much pain? Better you suicide, commit suicide, and immediately become
silent, then that's happiness. (laughter) Why you are, rascal, bothering
yourself and headaching others? The best thing is that you commit
suicide and become dead, and all happiness is there. As some rascal do
that, that by committing suicide he will solve all problem. So this is
easy process, commit suicide, and why you are writing so many books? If
ultimate happiness is to become dead, do that immediately.
Hayagriva: But isn't... Materialistic pleasure, he says, serves the
death instinct, but doesn't materialistic pleasure just bring out more
craving for pleasure?
Prabhupada: He is making death as the ultimate pleasure. Is it not?
Hayagriva: Death as the ultimate goal of pleasure.
Prabhupada: That's all, then commit it immediately. Why you are writing
so many book? Commit suicide, that everyone can do that.
Hayagriva: After, after having sex, most people simply go to sleep, and
he felt that this was the, sort of the ultimate extinction.
Prabhupada: That means Freud is a most imperfect person. He is taking
sex as very important thing, which the dog enjoys. As a dog's life and a
hog's life, the hog has got very good facility. The monkey has got very
good facility for sex life, and he is thinking this is ultimate goal,
and then sleep. So that is going on. So if sex life is so big thing, the
hogs, they have got good facility. The pigeons, they have got very good
facility. I think every hour they have four times sex life, these
pigeons. So if that is, then you become a pigeon. You pray to God that
"Make me a pigeon, make me a hog." Why you are becoming philosopher? Now
our philosophy is different--not to become a pig. Nayam deho deha-bhajam
nrloke kastan kaman arhate vid-bhujam ye. The life simply for sense
gratification, and for that purpose working so hard, but that is the
business of the pig. That is not the business of the human being. Human
being is tapasya. Tapasya means stop sex life. That is tapasya. Tapasa
brahmacaryena. So our philosophy is different from his philosophy. And
actually we are suffering. The pig has got good facilities for sex. Does
it mean that is ideal life, eating stool and having sex without
discrimination? They have no discrimination, whether mother or sister or
daughter. That is hog life. So if sex life is final pleasure, then hog
is in the greatest pleasure. He has no social obligation. He has no
discrimination. But our philosophy says "Don't become a hog, become a
sane man." There, there, there is a difference between his philosophy
and our philosophy.
Hayagriva: He says, "Everything in our life is an accident, from our
Prabhupada: Just see how foolishness he is.
Hayagriva: "...through the meeting of the spermatozoa and ovum, an
accident, which nevertheless participates in the lawfulness and
fatalities of nature, lacking only the connection to our wishes and
Prabhupada: You are so foolish that you cannot avoid even accident. You
are subjected to so many accidents. So what you will do by your
philosophy? If accident is so prominent, (laughter) so how you will make
adjustment with your philosophy? Stop talking philosophy, accept
accidents and suffer, that's all.
Hayagriva: Concerning sex, Freud explored the realm of infantile
sexuality and found a definite sexual nature in the earlier stages of
childhood. He concluded that these sexual activities in childhood were
normal phenomena, and finally concluded with his famous dictum, "In a
normal sex life, no neurosis is possible."
Prabhupada: That is also his foolishness, because a child can be trained
up to become a brahmacari so that he will have no inclination for sex.
It depends on the child's training. The unscrupulous father and mother,
they enjoy sex life before the child, and they imitate. I have seen it.
I have seen it in Agra. There are two small children. In life, what do
they know? The female child laid down, and the man child, just like they
have seen father and mother--sex. He does not know anything, but he is
imitating. So imitating, imitating, the sex life is there, it becomes
prominent. Similarly, you train the children not to have any sense of
sex life, he will become brahmacari. So he has not studied. He has seen
some abominable family's children. So they learn these things. Whatever
you teach, they imitate. So if you keep the children aloof from this
sex-life society, he will remain a brahmacari. There is many instances.
That is the Vedic civilization. The children are immediately, as soon as
four, five years old, he is sent to the gurukula, and under the
discipline he forgets sex life, practically. But still if he has little,
that is natural when he is young man, so a guru sees that still tendency
for sex life, he is allowed, "Go on, marry and become a grhastha."
Otherwise, if he is perfectly controlled over sex life, he becomes a
sannyasi, vanaprastha, the whole life. Just like my Guru Maharaja, he
was never married. So he could..., that can be trained. Why he is saying
the child is? Child can be trained. Even without sex he can live
throughout whole life without any disturbance. That can be trained up.
It is a question of education.
Hayagriva: He felt that sexual repression would be harmful, but sexual
sublimation can often be beneficial. Sublimation, he says...
Prabhupada: What is that sublimation? More sex? (indistinct) sex?
Hayagriva: Sublimation is, well let me read, "The excessive excitations
from individual sexual sources are discharged and utilized in other
spheres, so that no small enhancement of mental capacity results from a
predisposition which is dangerous as such." In other words, he didn't
believe that..., in total sexual freedom as it's conceived today, but
that a man would be better, instead of trying to totally deny the sex
drive, to try to redirect it, oh, perhaps in artistic activity or in, in
study, or in some other activity. Not to deny it.
Prabhupada: That means, in one word, to divert his attention.
Prabhupada: That is brahmacari. That is recommended in the Vedic
culture, that from the very beginning of his life, divert his attention
for spiritual activities, he, he will forget about sex life. That is the
experience. Not only a trained-up child, even a grown-up person, if he
takes Krsna consciousness seriously, he also forgets sex life. So that
is possible by training, one can forget sex life. That, that is
experience of Yamunacarya. He expressing, yadavadhi mama cetah
krsna-padaravinde. He says that "Since my, my mind and attention has
been diverted to Krsna consciousness activities, as soon as I thing of
sex life, I spite on it." That is possible. It is simply question of
training. And if one indulges in sex life without any restriction, the
physical problem is there. He will be impotent. He will not be able to,
even though he has got sex organs, he will not be able to use it. That
is nature's way of punishing. There are so many impotent person. So it
is a question of training. So the Vedic training is to train the small
child, from the very beginning of his life, how to avoid sex life. That
cannot be artificially done, but there is a process of training. By
accepting that training one can remain without sex life throughout the
whole life. That is possible.
Hayagriva: Well he felt it couldn't be stamped out. If it, if you try to
stamp out the sex drive, it will manifest itself in neuroses, in
Prabhupada: No, that is..., he is not... That is the defect. He does not
know perfectly anything, and he is philosophizing. That is the defect.
Not only in him--I find these all mental speculators, that is the
defect. Everything is possible, but our Krsna consciousness movement is
different from his imagination. Our philosophy is that so long one has
the sex inclination, he will have to accept a material body. And as soon
as he accepts a material body, he becomes implicated in so many
miserable condition of material existence. But there is another life,
which is not material, that is spiritual. If one is trained up to accept
that spiritual life, there will be no more botheration of this material
existence. That he does not know, neither he can understand. But there
is such thing. That can be found in the Vedic civilization, not this
meat-eating civilization. It is not possible.
Hayagriva: Concerning religion, he said, "Of the reality value of most
of them, of most religions, we cannot judge. Just as they cannot be
proved, neither can they be refuted."
Prabhupada: First of all, he does not know what is religion. That is the
defect in him. We say religion means the order given by God. Simple
thing. But he has no conception of God. How he can get orders from God?
Therefore how he can understand what is religion? He has got some ideas
of fictitious religion, which is described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam,
kaitava, cheating. Cheating religion. That is not religion. Religion
means, just like law. Law means the order given by the government. You
cannot manufacture law at your home. That is not... Similarly, if
somebody manufactures law at home and says that "I have manufactured one
law. You take it," so who, who sane man will accept that law? "Sir, you
keep your law in your pocket." Similarly, this so-called religious
system, which is not given by God, that is just like outlaws. They are
not religion. He has simply studied which is not religion. That is his
defect. Real religion is the law given by God. So he has no conception
of God, how he can understand what is religion? He has studied only
pseudoreligion, cheating religion; therefore he is dissatisfied.
Hayagriva: He said, "The riddles of the universe only reveal themselves
slowly to our inquiry. To many questions, science can as yet give no
answer, but scientific work is our only way to the knowledge of external
reality. Science is no illusion, but it would be an illusion to suppose
that we could get anywhere else what it could not give us." In other
words, religion is an illusion, but the answer lies in..., in science,
that science will eventually answer all of these questions that religion
attempts to answer through...
Prabhupada: No. The science or philosopher, when they are imperfect in
their knowledge, they, whatever they give, that is unscientific and
without any basic principle of philosophy. So the, first of all we have
to learn what is the objective of knowledge, what we are searching,
knowledge. The knowledge that... Vedanta. Vedanta, Veda means knowledge
and anta means ultimate. Unless you come to the ultimate point of
knowledge, your knowledge is imperfect, insufficient. So the ultimate
knowledge is God. So if these people, they cannot define any God, they
cannot believe in God, that means they have not reached to the ultimate
point of knowledge. God is a fact, but we do not have any clear idea
what is that God. That means our knowledge has not reached up to the
point of clear understanding of God. So unless one is able to reach that
point, everything, what he calls knowledge, is imperfect. God is there,
that's a fact, and knowledge means to go to that point. If one has not
reached to that point, his knowledge is imperfect. So how he can give us
something conclusively if he has imperfect knowledge? Let him be
philosopher or scientist; if he has got imperfect knowledge, what is the
value of his science, scientific knowledge and that? His knowledge is
imperfect. So our, our policy is we don't accept knowledge from an
imperfect person. We have received knowledge from the perfect person.
Krsna is accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead, perfect, and
anyone who follows Krsna's knowledge, he is also perfect. So our policy
is to accept knowledge from the perfect person, not from the
speculators. Speculators are not in perfect knowledge; therefore
whatever they say, they are all imperfect. Maybe to some extents it is
perfect, but it is not perfect knowledge.
Hayagriva: He writes, "As it is a delicate task to decide what God has
Himself ordained and what derives rather from the authority of an
all-powerful parliament or a supreme judicial decision, it would be an
indubitable advantage to leave God out of the question altogether and to
admit honestly the purely human origin of all cultural laws and
instructions." In other words, man is the law-giver...
Prabhupada: That, that means he has no clear conception of God, because
God has to take power from some parliament. God does not take power from
anyone. He is God. That is described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, that
janmady asya yatah anvayad itaratah ca arthesu abhijnah svarat, that the
Supreme, God, or Supreme Truth, Brahman, He knows everything. He knows
everything in details. And wherefrom? Abhijnah. He is, abhijnah means
completely in awareness. Then the question may be raised that "How He
got this complete knowledge? From whom He received?" The answer is
immediate, svarat. Svarat means independent. That is God. If one has to
take knowledge from Mr. Freud, then he is not God. Anyone, if you come
to that person that He is independent, parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate
svabhaviki, naturally He is all-perfect. He hasn't got to become perfect
by some process or from some authority. That is God. He is all-perfect
automatically. That is God. So anyone who is trying to be perfect, he is
not God. One who is... That, that, that is in the history, we find in
the history of life of Krsna. When He was three-months-old child He, He
could kill big giant like Putana. That is automatic. Either He is child
or He is a young man or He is old man, the godly power is there. The
nowadays these so-called yogis, they are becoming God by meditation, but
the three-months-old child in the lap of His mother, how He became God?
The God is God always. He hasn't got to learn it from anyone. That is
His svarat, independent. So these people have no conception of God;
therefore they are simply speculating and misleading persons. God is not
the subject matter of speculation. We, if we want to know God, then we
must know it from God Himself or a person who knows Him. That is the
direction in the Bhagavad-gita:
tad viddhi pranipatena
upadeksyanti tad jnanam
Tattva-darsinah, one who has learned about God as fact, as you see eye
to eye and you believe it. Similarly, one who has seen God eye to eye,
you have to let..., get lessons of God from him. Just like Arjuna.
Arjuna is talking with God. So if you have to understand God, then
understand how Arjuna has taken his instruction from God and what he's
understood. So Arjuna says, param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam
bhavan, purusam sasvatam adyam. So we have to take lesson from Arjuna
not from Mr. Freud, who has no knowledge of God. That is the way.
Hayagriva: Concerning early religious training, he writes, "So long as a
man's early years are influenced by the religious thought inhibition,
and by the lore one derived from it, as well as by the sexual one, we
cannot really say what he," that is man, "is actually like." So he feels
that early religious education actually warps a man's development, that
you can't say what man can truly be like if you educate him to believe
in a transcendental being.
Prabhupada: That's a fact. If a child is given lesson that there is a
supreme being controlling the whole cosmic situation, what is the wrong
there? He should learn it.
Hayagriva: But Freud felt that this inhibited man's natural development,
that you can't know what man is naturally like as long as you inculcate
him with these religious ideas.
Prabhupada: Then why do you send your son to a school for education?
Hayagriva: Well he felt that...
Hayagriva: Some education, there has to be education.
Prabhupada: That's all. This is also the most important education.
Hayagriva: So therefore, they are following this line of thought now in
the schools, because they've cut out religious education...
Prabhupada: That, that this is the important education in human life--to
learn about God. That is the only business, because in other lives, the
animal life, cat's and dog's life, they cannot understand. But in the
human form of life there is possibility; therefore that is the first
education. The animals, they cannot think of God, but in the human
society, why there are religions? Not in the animal society. To
understand God, that is the civilized form of human civilization.
Hayagriva: He agrees with Marx in his belief that religion is a form of
narcotic. He says, "The believer...," that is in God...
Prabhupada: Well first of all, these men do not know what is religion.
That is the defeat. That is their defect, either Marx or Freud of so
many so-called philosophers, they do not know what is religion. They
have to learn what is religion. Without knowing what is religion, why
they are talking of religion and God? They have no knowledge about.
Hayagriva: He says, "The believer will not let his faith be taken from
him, neither by argument nor by prohibitions, and even if it did succeed
with some, it would be a cruel thing to do."
Prabhupada: No. Anything, artificial teaching, that is cruelty. So that
is being done by Mr. Freud also. Artificially he is stressing on sex and
death and so on, so on, but that is not life. Real life is that to
understand the simple truth. Just like..., who was protesting against
father conception? That Mr. John, so and so?
Prabhupada: Father. So how he can avoid this father conception? If you
mislead people that there is no father conception, that is not
education; that is misleading. Father is there, everyone knows this
simple philosophy. And if he is misleading them, then that is not
philosopher, that is cruelty. A man is naturally believing that there is
father and there is father's father, and he is diverting his attention
from this natural belief. So this is cruelty. He is committing cruelty
to human understanding, simple understanding.
Hayagriva: He says, "I disagree with you when you go on to argue that
man cannot in general do without the consolation of the religious
illusion, that without it he would not endure the troubles of life, the
cruelty of reality."
Prabhupada: Man cannot do without education. Without education a man
remains an animal. Therefore in the human society there is a school,
college, an institution, teacher--not in the animal society. So the
principle is, the man is meant for being learned or being educated. That
you cannot deny, that man life should not be like cats and dogs, simply
eating, sleeping, mating, and dying. That is not man's life. Man's life
is to become advanced in knowledge and education. And as I have already
described, the ultimate knowledge: to understand God. If he is so-called
educated, without any understanding of God, then his education is
imperfect. You can deny the existence of God, but the God conception is
there in the human society. Some may accept it, some may not accept
it--that is another thing--but the conception of God, the whole
civilized world, they have got some type of religion. Either you become
Christian or Buddhist or Hindu or Muslim, religion means there is some
cultivation of knowledge to understand God. And to understand God is the
ultimate knowledge. That is called Vedanta. Veda means knowledge, and
the ultimate knowledge: Vedanta. So ultimate knowledge, it, what is
that? That is the beginning of Vedanta education. What is that ultimate
knowledge? Athato brahma-jijnasa. The Vedanta begins with this word,
"Now this human form of life is to acquire the ultimate knowledge."
Athato brahma. Brahma means the ultimate. So, the absolute. Now it is
the time to understand. So far understanding of sex, the dog also knows.
You don't require to give him any education. So nobody is given
education... Now of course they have adopted, but there is a Bengali
proverb, "How to cry and how to enjoy sex, it doesn't require any
education." When you are aggrieved, you cry automatically. When there is
a sex impulse, you enjoy it automatically. It doesn't require any Mr.
Freud. Without the help of any educator, everyone knows--cats, dogs,
animals, human being--everyone knows how to enjoy sex life. It doesn't
require any education.
So the Vedanta says that this kind of education is there in the animal
kingdom also, sex philosophy. There is no question of philosophy, it is
already there; anyone can enjoy it. Now, at this time, atha ato
brahma-jijnasa, now this human life is to inquire about the Absolute
Truth, Brahman, because that is the ultimate knowledge. This ultimate
knowledge can be acquired by the human being, not by the cats and dog.
So if a philosopher, without any knowledge of God, doubtful knowledge of
God, so he is imperfect, he is not even human being. He is cats and
dogs. (break) God means supreme controller. So everything we see is
controlled. The government is controller, but the supreme controller
there must be. That's a fact. Now, if you want to know it clearly, then
be educated. That is Vedanta. That is very reasonably said, that "What
is that Brahman, God?" Immediately answer is, janmady asya yatah. God
means, the Absolute Truth means, Brahman means from whom everything has
emanated. We see everything is emanating. Just like we see the trees are
emanating from the earth, and by eating the fruits, flowers, grains, the
animal, human being, they are also emanating. So ultimate cause is this
earth. We are emanating. We can say that "I am emanating from my
mother." So the mother does not eat, then how he, his, her body can
continue and how she can give another body within the womb? So
ultimately we can see that the earth or the water is the source of
emanation of everything. Then we can inquire wherefrom the water comes
and wherefrom the earth comes, wherefrom the air comes, wherefrom the
fire comes. This is philosophy. Then ultimately when we come, come to
the supreme point of emanation, janmady asya yatah: "Here is the person,
here is the source of everything." So that we must know. Simply in the
middle struggling for understanding without any perfect knowledge, what
is the value of this philosophy and knowledge? There is no value. You
must come to the ultimate goal, the ultimate source of everything. "By
accident," "perhaps," that, that is not knowledge. Definite knowledge.
Just like in the Bhagavad-gita you'll learn, Krsna says,
aham sarvasya prabhavo
mattah sarvam pravartate
iti matva bhajante mam
Why one should become a devotee of Krsna? When he understands perfectly
that "Here is the ultimate source." Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam
So when you have got this knowledge, that this knowledge, jnana, that
how this knowledge comes? By researching for many, many life. Then,
bahunam janmanam ante, in this way researching, researching,
researching, after many, many births, when he actually becomes in full
awareness that "Here is the source," then He says, vasudevah sarvam iti
sa mahatma su-durlabhah: "Oh, here is..., Vasudeva is everything." Sa
mahatma su-durlabhah. Then he begins his bhajana. Mahatmanas tu mam
partha daivim prakrtim asritah bhajanty ananya-manaso. That is life.
Simply speculation, coming to know definite knowledge, "perhaps,"
"maybe," and this and that--what is the value of this knowledge? That is
childish. That is childish. He is, he is saying others, for giving him
God, that is childish, but he is himself a child. He cannot give us any
definite knowledge. "By chance," "by accident," "perhaps." What is the
value of that knowledge?
Hayagriva: Freud's..., this is Freud's final conclusion on this point:
"True, without religion man will then find himself in a difficult
situation. He will have to confess his utter helplessness and his
insignificant part in the working of the universe. He will have to
confess that he is no longer the center of creation, no longer the
object of the tender care of a benevolent providence. He will be in the
same position as the child who has left the home where he was so warm
and comfortable. But, after all, is it not the destiny of childishness
to be overcome? Man cannot remain a child forever. He must venture at
last into the hostile world. This may be called education to reality.
Need I tell you that it is the sole aim of my book to draw attention to
the necessity for this advance?"
Hayagriva: The advance to reality.
Prabhupada: That reality is good advice. But unfortunately, who is
taking advantage of his advice? Because here we are presenting
Bhagavad-gita, the real point of religion, sarva-dharman parityajya mam
ekam saranam vraja. But these philosophers have misled the world so much
that now it is very difficult to convince them that here is God speaking
and here is religion. That service he has done. As they were innocent to
accept the words of God, now they have become overintelligent. They
think sex is God, and that is going on. So to counteract this mentality
it will take some time, but anyone who takes, accept the Bhagavad-gita,
the words of God, and the ways and means of life as defined by God, if
anyone takes, then he will be happy. That's a fact.
Hayagriva: Christ said, "Unless he becomes a little child, he shall not
enter into the kingdom of God."
Hayagriva: Unless you become like a little child, you will not enter
into the kingdom.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes, yes.
Hayagriva: And Freud says you must grow up.
Prabhupada: He is a, he is a crazy fellow. That's all. And all these
rascal philosophers, they are more or less crazy. One who does not know
what is God, what is the value of his knowledge? But our criterion of
knowledge is one who has known God. As long as you do not come to that
point, your knowledge is useless. Simply misleading. And that is not
knowledge. It is a fact that there is some supreme controller. Now if
one give education how that supreme controller is working, how He is
Supreme, that is real education. And you cannot understand how the
Supreme is working, you simply deny the Supreme, that is not knowledge.
Supreme is there because you are controlled. How can you avoid the
control? How you can say there is no supreme controller? You make a plan
and it is frustrated. There is supreme controller. You are making
arrangement to live here very happily; next day you die. So you are
under controller. How can you deny it? So there is supreme controller.
Now, knowledge means, "Who is that supreme controller? How He is
controlling?" Not that deny it, "Grapes are sour." Jumping, jumping,
jumping, jumping, when he could not reach the grapes, he said, "Oh,
there is no need of them. It is sour." Their position is like that. They
cannot understand... God is there, that's a fact--supreme controller.
But they cannot explain, neither they can understand. There is jackal
struggle. Jackal jumping, jumping; when he cannot get the, reach the
grapes, he says, " Why (indistinct)? It is sour." Their conclusion is
like that. They cannot understand what is God, how He is acting, what is
religion, and they are defying, "There is no need of religion, there is
no need of God." Jackal struggling, that's all. Jackal struggling is no