Dear Prabhu's please
accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
The following
quote is from a room conversation at Henry Street, New York 1972. I
could not find it in the conversation books or the Vedabase. It is
available on the video SPV 2.
I feel it is very
appropriate for our understanding of who is actually responsible for the
child abuse that has taken place in ISKCON.
Your servant
Mukunda dasa.
Devotee: Srila
Prabhupada I understand Krishna to be the supreme controller of all
activities that happen in this material world.
Prabhupada: Yes
Devotee:
So how can Krishna allow animal slaughter and others such "maya"
activities to take place under His control.
Prabhupada:
Krishna does not allow animal slaughter and such things.
Krishna says that "I am the father of every living entity."
Just like father. He has got ten sons. Some of them are like animals.
But those who are advanced in knowledge, such sons request the father
that " My other brothers are useless. Let us kill them and
eat!" Will the father agree? Will the father say " Yes. My
these sons are useless. You kill them and eat." Will the father
say? So Krishna has no sanction for animal killing. We are
doing, violating the laws of Krishna. Therefore we are becoming
entangled in sinful activities. We are doing. Krishna does not sanction.
Krishna says "Ahimsa". These are the qualities to be
developed . You cannot be violent. You cannot break anything. This
is violation of Gods law. Just like in the Bible it is stated
"Thou shall not kill". So those who are killing, they are
violating the laws of God and becoming, I mean to say, liable to be
punished, criminals. So Krishna doesn't…… The government does not
say that you kill your fellow. If you kill , then you will be hanged.
Government says this. But when you kill your fellow man. It is
your responsibility. It is not the governments. Similarly, when you kill
another fellow living being that is your responsibility, it is not
Krishna's."
(S.P. Room
Conversation at Henry Street, New York 1972.)
As we all know
Srila Prabhupada never sanctioned any type of child abuse. Rather he
instructed parents that child worship was more important for them than
deity worship. Srila Prabhupada repeatedly stressed the Vedic conclusion
that defenceless creatures, such as the cows, brahmanas, women, children
and old men are always to be protected.
Therefore if we
violate the Vedic injunctions and Srila Prabhupada's clear instructions
we are becoming entangled in sinful activities. Srila Prabhupada never
sanctions our sinful activities neither is he responsible for them. So
if children have being abused that is entirely our responsibility not
Srila Prabhupada's.
The following
morning walk conversation is also very interesting.
Hrdayananda: There's
another argument.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hrdayananda: Another argument.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hrdayananda: Many times, the professors, they say that "If God, if
god were actually all, all-good and all-perfect, then when He created
us, we would also be all-good..."
Prabhupada: Yes. But you are contaminated. You are all-good. That's a
fact. Because you are part and parcel of God, you cannot be bad. But you
are contaminated.
Hrdayananda: Well, they say that "Even, even if I have the
potential... Even to say that I ha..."
Prabhupada: You have got the potential. That's it.
Hrdayananda: But if I say that... If I, I'm originally in the spiritual
world, but even the potential to fall down is an imperfection in the
creation.
Prabhupada: No, potential does not fall down. Just like a child has got
the potency to pass the M.A. examination. So he has to be educated. If
you don't educate him, he'll remain a foolish child. So we are educating
to develop that potentiality.
nitya-siddha krsna-prema sadhya kabhu naya
sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya
They, that
potentiality is eternal. God is eternal. We are eternal. Our
relationship, eternal. Everything is eternal. But because we are small,
minute fragments, sometimes we fall down.
Hrdayananda: They say, "God should have, God should have created us
so that we..."
Prabhupada: Why you should dictate God? God has created perfectly. He
has given you independence. You fall down. It is your fault. God
has made you perfect, given you independence. But if you misuse your
independence, you fall down. Just like government gives everyone
opportunity. Why do you become criminal and go to the jail? That is your
fault.
Hrdayananda: They say that God should have created us so that
we...
Prabhupada: Why "Should have created"? He has created already
perfect. Because you are perfect, therefore you have got the
independence to misuse. You are not a dead stone. That is perfection. Ye
yatha mam prapadyante. You can go anywhere, sarva-ga. You can go to the
Vaikuntha. Yanti deva-vrata devan. You can go to the higher planets. You
can go to the hell. When you go to the hell, it is your choice. God has
given you all perfection. Purnam idam purnam adah purnat purnam udacyate,
everything is complete, perfect, and because you are perfect, you have
got the independence. But misusing that independence, you are imperfect.
Again, reviving your independence, you can become perfect, although you
are imperfect now. That is Krsna consciousness movement. Krsna
consciousness movement means raising the imperfect to the perfect
platform. That is Krsna consciousness. Other fools, they say, "We
are perfect now." In a fallen condition also, they're thinking
perfect. That is maya. Asurim raksasim caiva mohinim prakrtim sritah.
Krsna has made you perfect. There is no doubt about it. Just
like some of our students. All of a sudden, they deviate, go away. So
what is that? Our movement is imperfect, or he's imperfect?
Hrdayananda: He's imperfect.
Prabhupada: He's imperfect. Our movement is perfect. But he
becomes imperfect by his misuse of independence. He thinks that
"This is nice," and goes to hell. What can be done? That
independence is there. That is perfectness.
Hrdayananda: So in other words, these, uh, the people that
argue like that, they, they actually are lazy. They don't want to
surrender to God. Then they blame God.
Prabhupada: Yes. Because they have become imperfect, therefore
they are blaming God. "God is good;" they forget this. That is
their imperfectness. One side, they say, "God is good." Still,
they're blaming God. What is this nonsense? If He's God, God is good,
how can you blame Him? God is good; in all circumstances, He's good.
That is the meaning of good. Good does not mean that one time you are
good and next time you are bad.
Karandhara: Just like the criminals blame the government for
being in the prison house.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes, that is natural. Yes. Surasu-saksimat.
Surasu-saksimat. In the liquor shop so there was some trouble. So he
went to court. He went to court. So the court asked him, "Where is
your witness?" So he brought one witness, drunkard. You see?
Surasu-saksimat. So that is maya, aham mameti, misusing power
and blaming God, "Why God...?" God has made
everything. Just like here. It is made not to move. Stay. But we are
better than this. Is it not? It cannot move. So God has made this also.
But because we can move, we are better than this. And if, if, if
they say that "God, why he has made me to commit mistake?"
This rascal does not understand that that is freedom. You, why don't you
take the right one? God says, "This is right." Sarva-dharman
parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja. Why don't you take it? And still, how
you can say God is bad? What is the argument?
Umapati: Well, the argument is that if God is so all-powerful,
why does He even let me fall?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Umapati: If God is so powerful, why does He let me fall. Why doesn't He
save me, save me from my own foolishness. Why doesn't He...?
Prabhupada: Yes, He's saving you, but you don't carry His
order.
Umapati: Yes, but it's not recognized.
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like I say, "Chant sixteen
rounds." If you do not do it. What can I do? That is your fault.
Satsvarupa: If God were to force us, there'd be no love.
Prabhupada: Eh? No, no. Force is not good. Force is there. Force is
there. The maya is another force.
(S.P. Morning Walk
December 6, 1973, Los Angeles)
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