Note: Srila Prabhupada said the black snake is less harmful than the man snakes in his movement. Also Srila Prabhupada was actually locked in a small room with these man snakes !!!

Note: Another soul fighting for Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Who is this?

Devotee: Giriraja.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Giriraja: Because, I mean, I don't have any faith in the doctors or their treatments because they're never working and ultimately it depends on Krsna and Krsna is everywhere. He can exercise His will in any condition and you know, as you say, that if you go out and if you recover then it's very good. And even otherwise, I mean if that is the decision of Lord Krsna, then this is a very glorious way. (pause)

Prabhupada: All seriously consider this submission and let me go. (end)

Note: It is the duty of the disciple to carry out the order of the spiritual master. Why is Srila Prabhupada having to submit to them and ask to be allowed to go from the room on pilgramage ???

Continuing  on later that day

Bhavananda: We should begin the parikrama in Vrndavana.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Bhavananda: Because quite honestly, Srila Prabhupada, I think most of us are very worried. If you go off down the road and send us all back to our different assignments, we would not be able to serve with our full attention, knowing that our beloved father and spiritual guide was in such weak condition. So if we begin in Vrndavana, we're all here now, we can see so that we know what arrangements to make for the future when you want to leave.

Prabhupada: Hm. You make me flat. (break)

Jayapataka: We heard that Your Divine Grace had a dream that a kaviraja of the Ramanuja-sampradaya would treat you and bring you back to strength, and this kaviraja says that in a very short time, following the treatment, you would regain your strength. Although he hasn't got all of the medicines yet, but within a day or two they'll all be prepared, and he says within fifteen days you should be quite improved in strength. So far, he seems to have been quite sincere.

Prabhupada: No, no, he's sincere. I'll drink milk. Whatever strength is obtainable, there will be.

Jayapataka: Like to follow the same treatment, only while traveling.

Hamsaduta: So we should meet and make a program for going around Vrndavana.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hamsaduta: You want to begin tomorrow morning?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Devotee (1): If Prabhupada travels in a van it would be very bumpy. He should have a big bus.

Hamsaduta: Let's discuss it.

Prabhupada: Bus?

Devotee (1): A big bus.

Prabhupada: No, no, bus will be not good. Bullock cart.

Bhavananda: Bullock cart.

Jayapataka: That is very bumpy.

Bhavananda: Your Guru Maharaja used to have bullock cart travel from Hulorghat [on the bank of the Ganges in Mayapura] up to the Caitanya Matha. You told me you put a nice mattress down in the back and a cover, and you lay down there. You even told me once to go to Calcutta that way. You lay down, at night; you go little bit, little bit; and in the morning, when you wake up, you're in Calcutta.

Prabhupada: Bullock, you get the cow dung.

Tamala Krsna: Cook with it.

Jayapataka: In this part of India it's very cold now for Your Divine Grace.

Prabhupada: Underneath the tree it is not cold.

Tamala Krsna: You sound like you are very determined to go, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Daytime we expose in the sunshine, and camp underneath a tree at night. That has to be arranged. (Bengali with Bhakti-caru--Prabhupada drinks something)

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, should the devotees take prasadam now?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Tamala Krsna: It's about 1:30 now. After taking prasadam we can meet and chalk out a program for parikrama and tirtha-yatra. Is that all right? Okay.

Prabhupada: I thought you have taken.

Tamala Krsna: No, we were all surrounding you, listening very intently to all your instructions.

Jagadisa: Prasadam has been saved for the devotees that are here.

Tamala Krsna: Three o'clock we'll meet. So we'll have our meeting, Srila Prabhupada, with Lokanatha also present.

Jagadisa: Satsvarupa also.

Prabhupada: Four o'clock.

Tamala Krsna: Hm? Yes. And then we'll begin tomorrow. Is that soon enough?

Prabhupada: Yes. Hm.

Tamala Krsna: Should we depart for taking prasadam now, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Okay.

Prabhupada: Who is attending?

Bhavananda: Upendra.

Prabhupada: Upendra is very good attendant. (break)

Tamala Krsna: We were discussing how to make this parikrama possible, and we've concluded that the best thing was, as we said earlier, to parikrama around Vrndavana to begin with. And for that purpose we sent Lokanatha Maharaja and Panca-dravida Maharaja and Trivikrama Maharaja to get a bullock cart ready.

Prabhupada: Hired or purchased?

Tamala Krsna: No, for now just hired, not purchased. Later on we can make a more permanent arrangement, and it can be fixed up as nicely as possible. At the same time while we were meeting, the kaviraja, he also was present. So we inquired from him what he thought about this program, from a medical point of view of course. Spiritually he is in complete agreement. So from a medical point of view, he said that you would not at all be able to withstand this kind of a trip. He said that in a bullock cart, moving around, bumping on the road, you might not be able to live more than a couple of hours. He's here now. He wanted to speak to you.

Kaviraja: (Hindi)

Prabhupada: (Hindi) Lokanatha?

Svarupa Damodara: Lokanatha has already gone, Srila Prabhupada.

Hamsaduta: He has gone to Mathura for renting.

Tamala Krsna: He has gone out for renting the bullock cart.

Prabhupada: Oh. (Hindi)

Tamala Krsna: Lokanatha says that the bullock cart could probably go around Vrndavana in about five to six hours, parikramming Vrndavana town.

Prabhupada: Make an experiment. Then we shall decide.

Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada said, "Make an experiment. Then we shall decide."

Jayapataka: What is that experiment?

Tamala Krsna: Jayapataka's asking what that experiment is, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Vrndavana parikrama.

Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada said, "Vrndavana parikrama."

Hamsaduta: Prabhupada, does it mean with Your Divine Grace, or we should go alone first and see?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Hamsaduta: Does it mean that Your Divine Grace will come on the experiment, or we should go without Your Divine Grace and experiment?

Prabhupada: Why?

Jayapataka: See if the road is very rough, if the road is passable by bullock cart the whole way.

Prabhupada: Bullock cart is not smooth.

Tamala Krsna: Bullock cart is not smooth. How would you propose that we go, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Come, let us take the risk.

Tamala Krsna: Go anyway. Let us take the risk.

Svarupa Damodara: As your disciples, Srila Prabhupada, we're all neophytes. We don't know what is right and what is wrong. But at the same time we feel that we're very hopeful that you'll get strength slowly and slowly. And this morning you were telling us that you get a little strength, so we are hoping every day that "Prabhupada will gain even stronger and be with us for many more years." So we are taking advice from kaviraja that you take milk more and more, day by day, so that Prabhupada will get stronger. Like kaviraja is suggesting that when Your Divine Grace gets stronger, he'll go with you in the parikrama, he will accompany you.

Prabhupada: So let us make experiment in Vrndavana.

Svarupa Damodara: Shall we do that immediately?

Prabhupada: Hm. Hm.

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi)

Kaviraja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: Shastriji's saying that he shouldn't do it under the circumstances.

Bhavananda: Srila Prabhupada, if we follow the kaviraja's instructions and advice, then he feels that within fifteen days, twenty days, you will have strength. To take an unnecessary risk at this time, we have to practically appraise what will be the loss. You have said, "If I live or die on this parikrama, it will be glorious," but the loss will be that Srimad-Bhagavatam will not be finished, so many works will be unfinished. If it's just a matter of being a little patient and waiting fifteen more days--is only two weeks--then when you have strength, then we can all go on the parikrama, and you'll be able to hopefully gain more strength and finish up all of these works. But I think that the risk, in terms of the future of the whole world, is too great.

Prabhupada: Vrndavana parikrama is not risk.

Kaviraja: (Hindi)

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, when you went on this parikrama the other day around the temple, you became dizzy just going around the temple four times. That's when you were even able to sit up in bed a lot more. How is it going to be possible to go for four, five or six hours, when you couldn't...

Prabhupada: Not four, five, six...

Tamala Krsna: That's how long it takes to go around Vrndavana by bullock cart. It takes three hours walking at a good pace, and it takes at least five or six hours, Lokanatha says, by bullock cart. How...? We couldn't even go a half hour just around this temple.

Prabhupada: No, I traveled. It takes two hours in the morning.

Tamala Krsna: Walking.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: But not by bullock cart. That's when a man walks very quickly you can do it in two hours, but by bullock cart it will take five hours. We have... You had difficulty even doing a half-hour parikrama around this temple. You became very faint. Whether you think that you can go five hours in a row?

Prabhupada: From Madhava Maharaja's Matha, bring Krsna dasa Babaji.

Tamala Krsna: We should bring Krsna dasa Babaji here? Okay.

Prabhupada: And Indu.

Bhakti-caru: Indu-mati Prabhu?

Prabhupada: Indu-mati.

Tamala Krsna: Indu-mati.

Prabhupada: Then talk.

Tamala Krsna: Okay. Krsna-Balarama, you know Madhava Maharaja's mandira? You know Krsna dasa Babaji, Prabhupada's Godbrother? You know? So Krsna-Balarama will go with you. Prabhupada wants to see Indu-mati and Krsna dasa Babaji. You bring them both. You go in one of the cars. Madhava Maharaja's Matha. Krsna-Balarama--not the Krsna dasa Babaji from Radha-kunda. Madhava Maharaja's.

Svarupa Damodara: As your humble disciples, Srila Prabhupada, we are ready to take my instruction that you've kindly given us, but at the same time, you have advised us many times that we shouldn't take unnecessary risk. Just like few days ago you were telling a Bengali saying, saying that when you are doubtful, don't do it. You instructed us.

Prabhupada: That is material. (laughter)

“The Ravana will kill and Rama will kill.

 Better to be killed by Rama. Eh?”

Jagadisa: Srila Prabhupada, can you tell us why you want to go on the parikrama?

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) (break)

Prabhupada: ...good paddy.

Tamala Krsna: This seems like suicide, Srila Prabhupada, this program. It seems to some of us like it's suicidal.

Prabhupada: And this is also suicidal.

Tamala Krsna: Hm. Prabhupada said, "And this is also suicide." Now you have to choose which suicide.

Prabhupada: The Ravana will kill and Rama will kill. Better to be killed by Rama. Eh? That Marica--if he does not go to mislead Sita, he'll be killed by Ravana; and if he goes to be killed by Rama, then it is better.

Devotees: Marica.

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? I mean, just judging the symptoms, which is all that we can do, certain symptoms have certainly picked up. For instance, you're passing more urine, stool is coming naturally, and you're able to drink milk without getting any cough. These things were never there before.

Prabhupada: Hm. That will continue.

Tamala Krsna: So if the treatment is continuing, if the treatment is working, why not continue it under the guidance of this kaviraja for some time? His point is this. This is what I've seen, Srila Prabhupada, being your secretary all these months, that whenever you took milk you would get cough. For the first time I see there's no cough coming. Another problem, you couldn't pass urine. Now there's double the amount of urine. Another thing, you couldn't pass stool. Now it comes normally. At least it comes without any artificial means. So the one thing that has not yet come is strength, and kaviraja is suggesting what you yourself had always said, "If I can drink milk, I will get stronger." So if the kaviraja's treatment... To my feeling it has worked. At least symptoms... The symptoms have been better under his treatment than any doctor so far.

Prabhupada: That will work.

Bhavananda: It will work.

Svarupa Damodara: Also Srila Prabhupada's resting better than before.

Tamala Krsna: But the idea is that... According to him... I mean, obviously we're all conditioned, and... I mean, he's not claiming not to be a conditioned soul either, but according to him, going on this bullock cart is a suicide. He said within an hour or two hours, the bouncing and jumbling of the bullock cart will cause a heart attack. Just like you were having heart..., a little heart spasm the other day, just laying in bed two days ago. He says this going in a bullock cart, up and down, within one, two hours it can cause heart attack. So as his treatment has been better at least than any other doctor, and certain symptoms have improved, why are we giving up his advice? If you say his advice is wrong, then there's no comment, but all along, his advice seems to have been more accurate than any other doctors that we've had. I mean we who are closely around you, Srila Prabhupada, your servants, secretary, our opinion of him is far superior than our opinion of any of these others. I see that he's able to take care of one symptom after another somewhat successfully. He's able to deal with these problems. He can deal with the problem of not enough urine...

Prabhupada: That I know.

Tamala Krsna: He feels quite confident that you can live for six, seven more years, Srila Prabhupada.

Svarupa Damodara: We also feel very confident.

“But I think I shall be cured.”

 Tamala Krsna: Better that you live for six or seven years productively than that you go on this parikrama and die within two hours gloriously. Why not live for six or seven years and then go on parikrama and die? If the parikrama can always be done, why not put it off for six or seven more years of preaching?

Svarupa Damodara: You've already been glorious, Srila Prabhupada, all over the world. Whether you're here or outside doesn't really matter. You're already glorious.

Jayapataka: By your presence countless souls will attain devotional service. That's more glorious.

Prabhupada: But I think I shall be cured.

Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada says he thinks he will be cured by the parikrama. (Bhakti-caru and Shastriji--Hindi)

“If Prabhupada says that by going on parikrama

 he feels he'll be cured, then how can we continue

to place arguments against him?”

Hamsaduta: Under the circumstances we have to consider whether Prabhupada's opinion is more or less than the kaviraja's, is what it comes down to.

Tamala Krsna: We can't continue..., consider. Srila Prabhupada has to.

Hamsaduta: If Prabhupada says that by going on parikrama he feels he'll be cured, then how can we continue to place arguments against him?

Kaviraja: (Hindi)

Prabhupada: Kuvera?

Bhakti-caru: Shastriji is telling Prabhupada to ask the Kuvera's puspaka-ratha. That is airplane of Kuvera. And do the parikrama in that. Then there won't be any pumping in that way. And he's saying that if Prabhupada asks for that, he will sure get it. (devotees chuckle)

Kaviraja: (Hindi)

Tamala Krsna: Ultimately what Prabhupada decides, we will do.

Hamsaduta: Well, it just...

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, but it goes on. As Prabhupada goes on, his disciples also go on.

Kaviraja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: Shastriji's saying, Maharaja... Shastriji's saying that Prabhupada shouldn't talk too much. It's bad for his heart.

Kaviraja: (Hindi)

Tamala Krsna: So, Srila Prabhupada, we can have kirtana until Krsna dasa comes. Okay. (kirtana) Lokanatha is here, over there, Srila...

Prabhupada: So? Where did you go?

Lokanatha: I went to Mathura. I went first to Vrndavana and looked for the carts. They were not very good kind. They were made for rough loads. So I went to Mathura and spoke to one farmer. He had a fairly big size cart and two strong bullocks, and he asked for a hundred rupees. He wouldn't come down. So ultimately I agreed for a hundred rupees. And he will reach tonight at eleven o'clock. I asked him to start immediately, but they have puja--as we have go-puja, they also have oxen puja today--so he will only reach at eleven o'clock, and he will be with us all day long tomorrow. I had to give him one day or maximum...

Prabhupada: So what do you think?

Lokanatha: Of what?

Prabhupada: How many carts you have?

Lokanatha: I got just one today, one for you, and those who serve you, they could also sit besides you in the cart, and the rest could do kirtana around the bullock cart, and the whole unit, bullock cart and sankirtana group, will move together.

Prabhupada: So what we have to pay?

Lokanatha: We'll pay hundred rupees, one day. Of course, you want to have it for all the time. Best thing is to purchase a set of bullocks, two bullocks, and a cart.

Prabhupada: You have got experience.

Lokanatha: Yes.

Prabhupada: So what is better?

Lokanatha: Well, depends on whether we like to use it for longer time. Then we should purchase. If it is just for a few days, best thing is to hire.

Prabhupada: Hundreds rupees and food.

Lokanatha: No. He has his food for himself and bullocks. So that's for the cart, two bullocks and the driver.

Prabhupada: That's nice.

Lokanatha: Yes. This is what they earn for living. Usually they carry different loads from place to another place. Each trip they take twenty rupees, thirty rupees, fifty rupees, according to distance and the load they carry. But it's expensive to keep it for many days.

Prabhupada: No. If it is inconvenient, we may not keep.

Lokanatha: If it is convenient?

Prabhupada: Then we shall keep.

Lokanatha: So we'll hire first and see how it goes, works. And if you think it is nice, or comfortable, all right with you, then we can purchase.

Prabhupada: So how many we are going?

Lokanatha: Tamala Krsna Maharaja...

Tamala Krsna: How many what?

Gopala Krsna: How many will be going?

Tamala Krsna: Well, all the devotees want to go, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Oh, that's nice.

Hamsaduta: That's nice?

Tamala Krsna: Yeah.

Prabhupada: So how many carts you require?

Panca-dravida: Just one.

Lokanatha: One for now. We also had a meeting, and we were discussing that if we go around just in Vrndavana, all will go. But if we keep going from holy place to holy place, then we have to decide whether everyone goes or just a few of us go.

Prabhupada: So you are hiring for how many days?

Lokanatha: This is only for one day it is hired now, but we could continue to hire the same cart for several more days by paying extra money.

Prabhupada: Hm. Tamala Krsna?

Tamala Krsna: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Our experiment...

Tamala Krsna: It certainly is an experiment. Of course, we always like experiments to be successful.

Prabhupada: Yes. Where he'll go?

Tamala Krsna: What, Srila Prabhupada? Where will we go? We thought tomorrow to go around the parikrama path.

Prabhupada: Which parikrama path?

Tamala Krsna: Vrndavana parikrama.

Lokanatha: Does a cart go?

Tamala Krsna: I've never tried it with a cart. Smara-hari, you say a cart couldn't go?

Lokanatha: No, he says it cannot go.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Tamala Krsna: Smara-hari, who is familiar with the parikrama path, says that a bullock cart would not be able to pass in many of the places.

Prabhupada: Then?

Tamala Krsna: Well, then that means we can't do a Vrndavana parikrama.

Smara-hari: For example in Kesi-ghata there's no...

Tamala Krsna: He's experienced. He says...

Lokanatha: This Vrndavana parikrama is mainly for walking and circumambulating. It's not meant for going in a vehicle, motor vehicle or bullock cart.

Hamsaduta: Suppose we would go to Kesi-ghata or one of the important temples like Govindaji.

Lokanatha: Those are seven temples.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, another possibility is to go to the places where the main temples are, Srila Prabhupada, the Gosvamis' temples.

Hamsaduta: Tomorrow is Govardhana-puja, and a procession through the city of Vrndavana would be very ecstatic.

Prabhupada: Hm.

Panca-dravida: One parade.

Prabhupada: Others will come also.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, yeah, well, if we go through Vrndavana, probably many people will come.

Hamsaduta: Then we could also get some experience, because if we were, for example, to go to Govardhana, we would have to pass over similar roads.

Lokanatha: This cart does not have cover, Srila Prabhupada. This bullock cart which I hired has no cover on the top.

Hamsaduta: So we have to cover it.

Bhakti-caru: Lokanatha Swami, you apparently didn't get one question of Prabhupada. He asked what do you think about this trip. You didn't answer that. You have some experience with bullock carts. What do you think? In this condition Srila Prabhupada will withstand the trip? You know in what condition Prabhupada is in now.

Gopala Krsna: Bullock cart are usually very bumpy.

Devotee: This has rubber tires.

Lokanatha: If these roads are not bad, and the cart has tire wheels...

Prabhupada: Yes?

Lokanatha: So we're discussing bumping, so won't be much bumping on the cart. Also, we always could go slow. If Prabhu-pada wants to make an experiment, we could make one day...

Gopala Krsna: A few hours.

Prabhupada: I am thinking I am lying here... (break)

Lokanatha: ...should ride in very nice carts, a chariot.

Prabhupada: No, (indistinct). (laughter)

Lokanatha: I saw one in Maharastra. In Poona. Yes.

Prabhupada: Hm. You can purchase immediately. (laughter)

Lokanatha: We'll have to design it. They're not ready-made like that. The kind which we want, the pull-on kind, with cover on top and nice arrangements, we have to design it and order it. Get it made. There's a place called Meerut, north of Delhi...

Prabhupada: Therefore I sent you. You have got already experience.

Lokanatha: You said you want to make an experiment, so let us make an experiment with this hired bullock cart, and in few days' time...

Tamala Krsna: So where will we go tomorrow if we go?

Prabhupada: Govardhana?

Tamala Krsna: Govardhana.

Panca-dravida: That's very far. We went on one parade three years ago in Vrndavana, with elephants, that Your Divine Grace went. Maybe we could go on that same route.

Tamala Krsna: Govardhana will take about six hours to reach there.

Lokanatha: No, how many kilometers is that?

Gopala Krsna: Oh, it's very far.

Tamala Krsna: Twenty-eight to thirty kilometers.

Gopala Krsna: It takes one hour by car.

Lokanatha: Take five kilometers an hour.

Tamala Krsna: That's six hours to get there. Six hours to get there, and then three hours around Govardhana. Nine hours.

Gopala Krsna: And six hours back.

Panca-dravida: And the bulls might have to rest.

Tamala Krsna: You have to rest the bulls, don't you?

Panca-dravida: There's one route we went on in Vrndavana, on a parade. Shorter route. First time, as an experiment, we could go a shorter distance.

Tamala Krsna: That's quite a big experiment to make, going to Govardhana the first day, Srila Prabhupada. You feel confident that you can travel nine hours in a row on a bullock cart?

Prabhupada: I am sleeping here.

Tamala Krsna: What, Srila Prabhupada?

Lokanatha: He says he's sleeping here.

Tamala Krsna: But this is not a bullock cart.

Prabhupada: The same thing.

Tamala Krsna: The same thing?

Jayadvaita: One thing is that in the Gosvami temples they have govardhana-sila. That's also Govardhana.

"So your vision is transcendental, because you are the spiritual master"

Hamsaduta: Srila Prabhupada? The main concern of the devotees is that whether you will be able to survive such an experiment. But before, you said that you felt that such a parikrama would actually cure you. You said that. So your vision is transcendental, because you are the spiritual master. You're a pure devotee of Krsna. So if you say that it will cure you and that it will be beneficial for you, then we have to carry out that..., whatever you desire. We do not know. We're just on the mundane platform.

Prabhupada: One-day experiment. It is for one day?

Lokanatha: We have hired it for one day.

Prabhupada: Rest assured. I will not die in one day.

Hamsaduta: So we should go to Govardhana? Because tomorrow is Govardhana-puja.

Prabhupada: Yes. And we shall make our cooking there and...

Lokanatha: We should start early.

Prabhupada: He has got experience. Dig the ground and make our foodstuff. Very good picnic.

Gopala Krsna: Very good picnic.

Hamsaduta: If we go to Govardhana, we would take the prasadam that was prepared here and bring it there, so that many people can take.

Prabhupada: I have no objection.

Lokanatha: Or otherwise we can make real picnic. We could collect some grains there from door to door and cook some khicuri there.

Prabhupada: That will be very nice.

Gunarnava: There are already many thousands and thousands of people there, Srila Prabhupada. Perhaps it will take a long time to get there because of traffic. I was in Mathura today. Every ten minutes buses and tangas and so many kinds of vehicles were going to Govardhana. There are many, many thousands of people there today.

Panca-dravida: Besides that, the devotees would have to walk nine hours in the sun.

Gunarnava: Perhaps the road will be very busy tomorrow, Srila Prabhupada.

Tamala Krsna: Whew!

Hamsaduta: Can't walk?

Prabhupada: No, let them take their time. They do that. It is very nice picnic.

"So let us make experiment. Don't hesitate"

Lokanatha: From my village there is this pilgrimage called Pandarpur. This is sixty miles. And still, old men, they just travel, walk. Every ekadasi they go.

Prabhupada: Just see.

Lokanatha: Every ekadasi they go to Pandarpur, have darsana of Charukmari(?), and return on foot.

Hamsaduta: You have assured us that in one day you're not going to die, and you want to make this experiment, so we should do it.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Hamsaduta: We'll do it with great enthusiasm. Your Divine Grace is infallible. So if you say that it will help and cure you, then that must be a fact. You've never been wrong about anything, Prabhupada, so you must be right this time also.

Prabhupada: So let us make experiment. Don't hesitate.

Panca-dravida: So we can fix up the cart tonight.

Hamsaduta: Where's the cart? Outside?

Panca-dravida: It's coming.

Lokanatha: It will reach at eleven o'clock here. So I suggest right after mangala-arati we'll go, or we should start.

Prabhupada: As far as possible, take me in a comfortable position. That's all. As far as possible.

Svarupa Damodara: Comfortable position.

Prabhupada: That...

Panca-dravida: Arrange one bed on the cart. This mattress can go in nice arrangement.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: This is not the best. There is other mattresses that are as good or better than this. The temple has many gadis. We'll get them.

Panca-dravida: We can make nice arrangement. This will purify Govardhana Hill, Srila Prabhupada. Tirthas become purified by the presence of...

Lokanatha: Another tirtha.

Panca-dravida: Yes. Prabhupada will go to the tirtha.

Jagadisa: You're a Vaisnava like Arjuna and Hanuman, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Tomorrow is a great festival.

Lokanatha: Tomorrow is Govardhana-puja festival.

Prabhupada: Yes. We are in Vrndavana, and we shall not take part? We must take part.

Tamala Krsna: Hm. We are in Vrndavana and we are not taking part. We must take part.

Panca-dravida: So we should all go to Govardhana?

Prabhupada: Why not? Who is here?

Tamala Krsna: About thirty or forty devotees, Srila Prabhupada.

Svarupa Damodara: We're just like puppets, Srila Prabhupada. We are all unfit to make any decision. Whatever Your Divine Grace instructs us to do, we just follow.

Prabhupada: So, Lokanatha, what do you say?

Svarupa Damodara: What do you say, Lokanatha Maharaja?

Lokanatha: We should make experiment to please you.

Prabhupada: That's nice.

Lokanatha: That will be ever-new experience for us also.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Jayapataka: It will be historic. Many people have been invited to the temple here. Many people have been invited to attend the function here at the mandira.

Gopala Krsna: Thousands of people are expected to come tomorrow.

Panca-dravida: That can also go on.

Prabhupada: When they have invited?

Svarupa Damodara: To Krsna-Balarama temple, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: When?

Svarupa Damodara: Tomorrow.

Tamala Krsna: "What time?" he's asking.

Bhavananda: At 11 a.m.

Tamala Krsna: At around noontime, Srila Prabhupada.

Gopala Krsna: There's a big feast at one o'clock.

Prabhupada: So half of our men may come back.

Tamala Krsna: Half of the men may come, and half should stay. All the Vrndavana devotees can stay. All the visiting devotees should go. All right, we'll make that division, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Keep that palanquin.

Tamala Krsna: Keep the palanquin on the cart?

Prabhupada: Cart?

Tamala Krsna: What, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Palanquin.

Tamala Krsna: Where should we keep it? With us on the cart?

Prabhupada: Carry it.

Hamsaduta: Bring it along.

Panca-dravida: We'll bring it along. (discussion of how to do this)

Svarupa Damodara: So when we'll come back from Govardhana?

Gopala Krsna: Tomorrow night.

Tamala Krsna: So after circumambulating Govardhana, we will return to Vrndavana or stay out?

Prabhupada: What do you think?

Panca-dravida: Maybe we could stay overnight.

Lokanatha: When we are there, out, we'll decide.

Gopala Krsna: He can't come back tomorrow night.

Tamala Krsna: It's helpful for the devotees to know, just so they can bring something to wrap around when it gets to be nighttime. It's not the middle of the summer, you know. It is...

Lokanatha: We have two, three vehicles here.

Tamala Krsna: I'm saying it's something that should be considered now, and not when we get there. You said when we get there we'll see.

Svarupa Damodara: We should make all the plans complete.

Prabhupada: That you consider.

Bhavananda: We should go with plans for staying overnight.

Prabhupada: Why you are asking me?

Lokanatha: I think we'll have to stay there.

Hamsaduta: Yeah, definitely.

Tamala Krsna: We definitely have to stay there.

Hamsaduta: :Six hours to go, three hours to go, that's nine. It's not possible to come back. So one night, spending one night in Govardhana.

Gopala Krsna: The devotees are crashing after two hours.

Lokanatha: The devotees should be prepared to stay overnight there. Under the trees. (laughter)

Hamsaduta: We're supposed to be gosvamis. We have to stay under a tree. Different tree every night.

Lokanatha: When we were traveling from Vrndavana to Mayapura we stayed many times. Outside we'd live under the tree. It's nice.

Bhakti-caru: Yes, but if just one window is open at night, Prabhupada starts feeling cold in spite of the blanket.

Lokanatha: You are making mundane.

Svarupa Damodara: It will be very cold in the early morning hours.

Hamsaduta: We'll bring the van, and Prabhupada can stay in the van overnight, or we'll find some place.

Gopala Krsna: All the asramas will be overcrowded.

Panca-dravida: We can sleep around the van. Prabhupada is like a desire tree. He satisfies everybody.

Lokanatha: That cart could be turned into house. Have bamboo sticks, cover it with...

Prabhupada: So begin to plan.

Svarupa Damodara: I think Lokanatha Swami should make the route, completely planned out, and the place also where we're going to picnic so that everything has to be arranged well ahead of time.

Prabhupada: So do it.

Panca-dravida: Yes, we'll prepare the cart tonight, Srila Prabhupada.

Lokanatha: When we started the bullock cart you said, "Go to the heart of the village," and we said, "What is this heart?" You said, "Wherever there is well, water, we should camp. We should stay." That is where we could remain clean.

Prabhupada: That you have experience. I have no experience.

Lokanatha: Maybe you sent me to experience this bullock cart program so that you could...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Lokanatha: ...in future go on bullock cart.

Prabhupada: For me it is experiment.

Svarupa Damodara: We should also request kaviraja to come along?

Prabhupada: Invite him.

Gopala Krsna: He can come in the van.

Panca-dravida: Then it is all decided. You want to take some rest, Srila Prabhupada?

Hamsaduta: Can we have some kirtana, Prabhupada? (kirtana)

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, are you finished passing urine? Yes. (break) Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Dandavat.

Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada said dandavat.

Krsna dasa Babaji: (Bengali with Prabhupada about parikrama)

Prabhupada: Make an experiment.

Svarupa Damodara: What time we start?

Bhavananda: Five o'clock.

Prabhupada: (Bengali) Somebody may go and bring his mala-japa.

Tamala Krsna: Bring him?

Prabhupada: Bring his beads.

Hamsaduta: Where are they?

Prabhupada: Where they are?

Krsna dasa Babaji: At Imlitala. I can go. I can go and come back.

Prabhupada: You can go in car.

Tamala Krsna: We'll send... Yes, Srila Prabhupada. Your mala are at Imlitala.

Krsna dasa Babaji: Yes. Let me go there.

Tamala Krsna: We'll take you by car. You can get your mala. You'll stay overnight here.

Hamsaduta: Someone could pick it up for him in a riksha.

Krsna dasa Babaji: I can go.

Prabhupada: (Bengali)

Tamala Krsna: We'll bring him by car. He can get his things and bring him back. He'll get his bedding.

Prabhupada: His bedding and beading. (laughter)

Tamala Krsna: Bedding and beading.

Jagadisa: Bedding and what?

Upendra: Beading.

"So make arrangement"

Prabhupada: (Bengali) Is that all right? (Bengali)

Svarupa Damodara: We're sending someone.

Krsna dasa Babaji: No, no, I'll go personally.

Tamala Krsna: No, we'll go with a car. He can come and collect his things.

Prabhupada: So make arrangement.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: (Bengali)

Jayapataka: ...that if you feel any pain or experience any difficulty, then we can bring you back.

Prabhupada: Yes. I'm not obstinate. (laughter)

Krsna dasa Babaji: Hare Krsna.

Prabhupada: (Bengali) Sadhu-sanga sadhu-sanga sarva-siddhi... (Bengali) Either the experiment success or... (Bengali) Parikrama. (Bengali)

Hamsaduta: Someone has to take him to Imlitala to get his things.

Jayapataka: (Bengali)

Krsna dasa Babaji: (Bengali)

Jayapataka: Should there be kirtana, Srila Prabhupada? You like kirtana?

Prabhupada: Yes. (break) (Bengali)

Tamala Krsna: To go.

Prabhupada: To request not to go?

Krsna dasa Babaji: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Well, Srila Prabhupada, I'll tell you, I'm getting so upset sitting in the room upstairs. I mean I just... I was walking around... Two of the devotees told me this road is so bad that if you go on this road, you're going to be jolted back and forth. The road is terrible. I just can't understand, Srila Prabhupada, why it has to be tomorrow that we have to go. If anybody wants you to travel, I do. My whole desire is to take you all over the world. I want to take you on parikrama, but why do we have to go when you're in this condition? I can't understand it. It just... I was standing outside. This kaviraja, he has worked so hard. He's so much disappointed. He can't understand why he... He says that now, today, you've taken half a kilo of milk. No mucus has is being produced. No stool is being passed. He says tomorrow he wants to give you a medicine that will begin to build the milk into muscles. He's going to get you to a point where you can take two kilos of milk a day. And he says very soon you'll be able to have the strength to actually do parikrama. So why are we throwing everything out the window, that we must go tomorrow? I cannot understand.

Prabhupada: All right.

Bhakti-caru: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

Bhavananda: Thank you, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: I cannot refuse all your request.

Tamala Krsna: And we cannot refuse your request. We will take you all over tirtha-yatra, to all the places. Just that you get a little stronger. You'll be free of all management. You simply go to tirthas and take darsana of all the Deities in India. Everyone will stay in their respective places. They'll manage. But we just want you to be stronger.

Prabhupada: All right. That will satisfy you? (laughter)

Tamala Krsna: Babaji Maharaja also, you also thought that? We did not talk to him.

Bhavananda: We were just on our way down the stairs to come and see Your Divine Grace.

Prabhupada: Bhavananda?

Bhavananda: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: You are satisfied?

Bhavananda: Now I am, Srila Prabhupada, yes. (laughter) I was in too much anxiety.

Prabhupada: No, no, I cannot put you in anxiety. You have done so much. You have suffered in Mayapura so much. I cannot put you in anxiety. So I shall do what you like. (Bengali) Lefthand, righthand. I cannot refuse.

Krsna dasa Babaji: (Bengali)

Tamala Krsna: I mean I'm amazed, Srila Prabhupada. A half a kilo of milk you've drank today--no mucus, no stool, and that is wonderful. You could not have done this two weeks ago.

Bhakti-caru: Yes, when I told the kaviraja he got quite amazed. He told me, "Don't give any more milk. It might..." But Srila Prabhupada wanted some milk now, so I'll give.

Prabhupada: Where is kaviraja?

Tamala Krsna: He's out again getting medicine. This man, Srila Prabhupada, Adri-dharana says he sits up all night worried about you, thinking, taxing his mind how to give you just what you require.

Prabhupada: No.

Bhakti-caru: Yesterday, when I went to call him at 4:30, I saw him sitting on his bed.

Tamala Krsna: All night. He goes in the jungle four, five hours looking for roots, herbs to give you. He's so sincere.

Prabhupada: So many well-wishers, I cannot refuse. This is not my business. (Bengali) All right. You take Babaji Maharaja. That will be my going. (laughter)

Krsna dasa Babaji: Jaya.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, the bullock cart will go tomorrow.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: To Govardhana.

Prabhupada: Yes, other devotees can go. I cannot go.

Tamala Krsna: No, they'll go on your behalf, but you will go one day. That we promise you.

Prabhupada: All right.

Tamala Krsna: Our greatest pleasure will be to take you on tirtha-yatra, Srila Prabhupada. We wanted so much to go with you on that.

Prabhupada: Thank you very much.

Tamala Krsna: Actually, Srila Prabhupada, we're so much attached to you that you practically drive us to madness sometimes. Tonight we were becoming mad.

Prabhupada: No, no, I shall not do that. Babaji Maharaja? (Bengali) So you will take bath in Radha-kunda on my behalf.

Tamala Krsna: We'll get you better, Srila Prabhupada, and you will also be able to take bath personally there. We'll see you get better.

Prabhupada: That's all right.

Tamala Krsna: Krsna will make all of our words come true, Srila Prabhupada.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali--brings milk for Prabhupada)

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. (Bengali)

Tamala Krsna: Oh, this kaviraja, I mean we're fortunate to get this sincere man.

Prabhupada: Where is kaviraja?

Tamala Krsna: He's out working, at work.

Bhavananda: Adri, see if he's here, kaviraja.

Tamala Krsna: As soon as he comes, he can come and see Prabhupada. (end)